Interviews
A: (Sue) I think that a lot of it was the mind-set we had as soldiers. That is, if you don’t understand something, wrap it up in a bundle of faith and stick it on the shelf until later because you might understand it some day. That's what we were trained to do: not to question but just to do! So that mind-set was always there.
Q: When u read the bible did u feel that it was speaking to you more or were the letters more important at that time?
A: (Sue) When I did read the Bible which, sad to say, I didn't read enough of since we were told the letters came first, and then the Bible, I don't agree with that now. I think that the Bible is God’s word that has been through generations faithful to Christians. The Bible would really speak to me when I did read it. Some of the early letters, most of the early letters _ definitely spoke to me, like "Faith," "Mountain Men," "Choose." All of those early letters were great and that was our foundation, but then later a lot of the letters went wacky, they didn't make any sense and didn't have any bearing. (Gary: But I needed to read them for the politics.) I wouldn't get fed like I used to in the beginning of the Family, and most of that stuff I just had to take by faith because either I didn't agree with it or understand why we even had to read it, you know? It was just stupid stuff!
Q: Right now the Family has written this letter called "Shake up 2000." Have you heard about that?
A (Gary) No!
Q: It’s about some changes that are happening in the Family. Through this letter they are going to ask people to leave if they don't want to be in the Family anymore. They are giving everyone a month to think about whether they want to stay or not because they say the Family is going to tighten up. Now if those people stay in the Family and in 2 or 3 years they come to you and say they were abused, do you think it is their fault or is it the Family’s?
A: (Gary) Everyone has to make his or her own choice. Make your own choice. I make my own choices. I have to live with God and I have to live with myself. I can’t tell people what to do, or if they are right or wrong. Make your own choice. If that is the way you want to be, fine! This is where I believe the Lord wants me to be today. I can’t point my finger at someone else and say, ‘’You guys, this all wrong for you. This is what you are supposed to be doing!’’ We have got to believe that the Lord is in control here.
Q: What do you think is happening at the New England fellowship?
A: (Gary) I think we are thinking a lot about the future, and we are growing.
A: (Sue) I am thankful for all the brethren that are here. There are quite a few of us, especially in this area, and it has been quite a strength to all of us in our daily life in the things we go through. We know we aren't alone. We can just call somebody up and pray with them. We know we are going to see each other on the weekend. We have all pretty much gone through the same things with our kids and with school and jobs. We are all different and we have different battles but we have the same ones, too, adjusting. Coming out of the Family was a big adjustment and people that are coming out now we can help them because we have been through it already. All of us feel that we want to be a blessing and a help to those who are making the decision to leave because we feel that we do have some experience now. Nobody is trying to be all spiritual or the big leader or anything like that. We are just real people, normal people who are all in the boat, trying to take care of our kids, raise our kids and keep them on he right track and when we have a hard time we just get together and pray together which is a real strength. I suggest it for anybody. If you are near any brethren, to get together with them, and make it a habit at least once a week.
A: (Gary) Regardless of your personality or your character or weather you get along or not, just get together.
A: (Sue) We have learned not to judge each other. We all know that it is hard enough just to go through life. It’s a survival thing everyday with all of us, but I can say, and we all can say that God is faithful and He meets us. He provides and He cares for us all of us and He has guided us to the jobs we have and helped us bear fruit. He is thankful for that service. You have proven to Him how much you really love Him and He’will???????????????? meet you more than half way. He’will............................???????? come 99% of the way to take care of you now. Your faith is going to grow more than when you were in the Family because now you really need Him. Now you have to depend on Him. Now you are going to have a real relationship with Jesus because you don't have the group to hold you up any more. You have to depend on the Lord and believe me He is faithful. He loves us and he hasn't failed any one of us and He’s not going to fail you, either.
Q: What do you think you guys can do personally to help other people related to the Family?
A: I think, get on the Internet and see different sites that are out there about people who already left and follow on. Like Barney has one that’s call New Day News.com. Ask people if you need help to locate some place or if they have any suggestions about jobs. Ask what to do with the kids at school. There are plenty of people who have been doing it so they have a lot of good advice. And just make some contacts with the brethren in the area you are going to, and ask for their help. Just say, "Look, we need to find a place to live. Can you help us? What’s the best area? How should we do this?" And, you know, see if there’s someone who can put you up for a little bit until you can get on your feet and, believe me, there are a lot of brothers out there who are willing to help like that, you know. Just let the need be known and people will help.
Q: What about you Gary? Do you have any additional suggestions, or do you think the same?
A: (Gary) I think the most important thing, especially to the children, is to be a sample. You can’t just go off and do whatever you feel like just because you don’t have anyone over you. At the same time we are not in a big home you could do more.
Q: As a single mother (at that time), what was one of the greatest fears being out of the organization?
A: It was feeling alone. The feeling like there was nobody there to help me, just the feeling of isolation and ‘’Oh my God, I don’t have anyone to take care of me, and who do I turn to?" And that’s why I said that if you can find a place to live where there’s a lot of brethren around. I was blessed to have a lot of brethren around and I didn’t feel alone and thank God they were brethren who really loved the Lord because so many of them told me ‘’if there’s anything you need, call me. Let us know we are right here." You know, it’s tough being a single mom, and that was my greatest fear that I was going to be totally alone and nobody would be there for me, but thank God my situation wasn’t like that.
Q: What do you want to say to the single mothers?
A: Jesus loves you more than you could know. You’re not alone and he is ever present. He will especially make himself know to you mothers more than others. I mean, I really thought that He was my husband and He just went out of his way to show me He was there. So just believe that He really is there and will be an ever-present help in time of trouble.
Q: What was your fear of leaving the Family?
A: That I had somehow sinned and I wasn’t going to be forgiven by the Lord: Fear that I was no longer a disciple and that I had done something wrong. Fear that I had failed the Lord.
Q: Did you leave the Family on your own, or were you asked to leave?
A: I went to a program once, and for lack of a better word, after I was tortured I said, "Well, I guess you guys beat me here so I give up, the test is over, You guys win and I am leaving", I called it torture. I could no longer stand to see the teenagers being beaten and abused the way they were and that sort of really crippled me. And that is sort of what helped me decide to leave. I left on my own because I could no longer stand the abuse that these kids when through as I watched them being tortured.
Q: Do you feel you have a normal life now? like working? What kind of job do you have?
A: (Gary) I restore historical buildings outside, about 20, 30 stories. I do a lot of brick work and the Lord has really blessed that even though I’ve had 2 back up and I’m retired and am not supposed to be working, so It’s something I enjoy.
A: (Sue) Mainly the kids, but I do work part-time doing sales in the evening selling, cleaning machines called The Rainbow. Ha ha. It’s fun. I enjoy meeting people and you make a pretty good commission. That’s why I do it. So for now it’s what the Lord is having me do, but mainly I’m here with the kids.
Q: How many kids do you have?
A: We have 11 children.
Q: How long were you a Christian before you joined the Family?
A: the Family led me to the Lord
Interview Wednesday, Dec. 8 with Jeremiah Explosion (also known as Cort Parker) and Esperanza de Amor (also known as Piedad Parker). BackJeremiah was born in New York City and Esperanza was born in Colombia. Jeremiah was with the family as a missionary from 1976-1985, during which time he met Esperanza. They came to the United States in 1985 to raise funds to return to the mission field, but a series of circumstances occurred and they were actually out of contact with the Family for 14 years.
He now works as editor of a newspaper.
Q:
What was the reason for the lack of contact?A:
(Jeremiah) The idea in returning to the United States was to raise funds so I could be more independent overseas and spend more time witnessing. I was able to set aside a lot of money during the first eight months. I then found a n extremely cheap house handyman’s special _ and figured if bought it and fixed it up, I could either sell it later for a profit, money which either way I could use overseas. So I decided to stick here a little longer another 10 months to pay off the house. In the meantime, the kids were beginning to go to school and I didn’t want to take them out of school in the middle of the school year, so I kept working and saving money with the ultimate goal of rejoining the Family on the mission field. Also, the brethren I knew in Colombia had moved and I just lost contact with them, and I didn’t know anyone in the Family up here. The months became years as little by little we slid more and more into the system. We never stopped witnessing though, or trying to raise our kids in the love and admonition of the Lord.Q:
How did you meet each other?A:
(Esperanza) I was looking for something better to change my life. I had a lot of questions. I didn’t want to live anymore because I had a lot of problems. I wanted to kill myself and I was in Bolivian Park in Medellin, Colombia, and I saw a group of people, including my husband, playing guitar and witnessing. They invited me to their home and my husband led me to the Lord there. That was in 1977. Jesus changed my life.Q:
Tell me one very valuable spiritual lesson that you learned in the Family.A:
(Jeremiah) The major lesson that I learned in the Family was that you could become a true disciple, and live just like the first church did, forsaking all and serving the Lord full-time; sharing everything, with people giving according to their ability to those according to their need. It was an eye-opener to see that you could just preach the Gospel day and night and live as the Apostles did in carrying out the Great Commission. I had heard a lot of churches talk about that, but I saw in the Family that you could actually do it.(Esperanza) The most important lesson that I learned in the Family was that I cold serve Jesus full-time in a true family, a universal family.
Q:
What happened to you in the Family that made you sad, that you think could have been done better?A:
(Jeremiah) I never had a personal problem with anybody at all in the Family. We did have a problem with the Flirty Fishy doctrine. After the world heard of that, they became suspicious of us and didn’t want to have anything to do with us. In Colombia, they were sure it was ‘’trato de blancas" _ white slavery _ and that we were actually kidnapping women off the street, hustling them off to parts unknown, and then turning them into sex slaves somewhere. While this doctrine may have borne good fruit in some cases, the overwhelming result was skepticism among many brethren, fear and loathing of us in the system, and persecution by the Colombian government which ultimately arrested myself, my wife and a host of other brothers and sisters and put us in Bella Vista prison for a while. That was a drag.(Esperanza) The most painful experience, personally, was when the Family began to leave the true path laid down by Jesus and the Apostles and starting to follow new doctrines which weren’t in the Bible, like free love without thinking of the consequences, the result being that the woman was left to take care of the child as the father would just take off. This hurt me a lot and I always prayed for MO that the Lord would touch his heart and mind so he would return to the Word and stop damaging so many families, who were so full of the Holy Spirit and the love of God. To serve Jesus is serving Jesus, not man. That broke my heart.
Q:
What is the relationship you have with your kids?A:
(Jeremiah) I have four sons, ages 21, 19, 16 and 3 and the relationship I have with all of them is fantastic. Not only do we have a lot of fun times together and share a lot of interests, but they are really into serving the Lord, learning the Bible, witnessing to friends, acquaintances, everyone. One of my sons started learning the guitar this week so he can get out and witness with the guitar, so it’s just been fantastic. We thank the Lord for all these blessings.Q:
One of your sons came here not so long ago after being out of touch with the Family for many years and he saw something not quite up to the standards of Christianity. In your opinion, what is happening to the kids in the Family? Most of the kids that live in my house, they came from the Family and some of them want to do drugs and other stuff.A:
(Jeremiah) when you where a teenager you where trying to form your own identity. That’s what being a teenager is all about. When we were teenagers we were in the system and we were messing around with a lot of things. We had to learn for ourselves, not just because someone told us, that the world was just not where it was. We wanted the things of God, because we knew the system stunk. They’re looking at life on the other side of the fence, having grown up in Christian homes, and they wonder what the world is like. They see so many others their age doing these things and, at least on the outside, appearing as if they enjoy it. As they form their own identity, they need to be certain in their own minds what they believe and unfortunately, for some, the only way for them to accomplish that is to go out there for themselves and try things out. Maybe that is where the rebellion is coming from.A:
(Esperanza,) Some Family members made a big mistake. They didn’t have the knowledge that some day their little kids would become adults. They never gave them an education, which would allow them to defend themselves in the world, which surrounds them. The spiritual and the material go hand-in-hand. They never had the opportunity to know the two worlds. Some of them are almost without spiritual fathers, and without any future, not only for themselves but also for their own children. This has hurt them a lot. And its not like they don’t love Jesus. They just hurt because there was never the understanding needed to recognize that they needed more attention from their parents. They grew up in the Family, in the gospel and they were never given the opportunity to develop as people.Brothers and sisters, I love you so much. You are a blessing that the Lord has given me. I was without a church in a country where they didn’t speak my language. I didn’t belong to a church because we are the churches. I raised my children in the gospel, and now they are full of the Holy Spirit and they are witnessing non-stop. They are studying in the university but this hasn’t stopped them from witnessing all the time. You can speak with my children, they are a living testimony.
run by fail, sinful man, adverse politics entered into the original ideal
Family structure, and abuses occurred. The Words of the prophet were
often implemented in the flesh rather than the spirit, reaping the sad
results the Lord warned us about.2. One major lesson learned living outside the Family concerning my
kids.
Living outside the Family allowed me to let the Letters be the
leaders. I followed their guidance according to my own understanding and
faith, and the results in the lives of my children have been phenomenal.
3. My experience living outside the Family as a single mother.
Actually, when I left the Family, Tim, Leah, and I were already
married. We had a successful communal home and ministry. The one
experience that I could call negative was that of being cut off from my
people, much like the Muslims, Jews, Amish, and people from other
religious communities are when they "forsake the faith".
4. How did you get financially stable?
We continued our ministry after leaving the Family, so our
finances weren't affected by our departure.
5. What do you see happening to former members?
It really depends on the former member. Those that have a strong
relationship with the Lord, continue to rely upon Him and do well.
They're able to learn from their past experiences, good and bad, and
continue to grow. Those that focus more on something other than the Lord
have a more difficult time breaking free from the past and going on with
their lives. They suffer more from anger and bitterness over the real
and imagined offenses of others, and their lives often stagnate.
6. Do you think the Devil is trying to discredit Christianity?
He has tried to discredit the Lord and His Word from the
beginning. But I've read the end of the Book: we win.
7. What council would you give to someone joining the Family and someone
just leaving the Family?
I would give the same council to any child of God: work on your
relationship with the Lord. To know Him is Life eternal. Pray, study
His Word, and spend time with Him; He's got all the answers.
8. Whose fault is it when children are abused in an organization?
The object is not one of fixing the blame, but that of fixing the
problem.
The abuse cycle is a difficult one to understand, just ask the
American court system. Often an abused woman will allow her children to
be abused as well, not realizing she has the right and the responsibility
to oppose the abuse. Her sense of worth and her belief that she can
discern what is right or wrong have been so severely damaged by abuse,
she doesn't view herself as being capable or worthy of making decisions.
Yet, allowing abuse to ourselves and others is ultimately our
responsibility. And if we don't take responsibility for the part that we
play in the abuse cycle, we can never really escape it. We will continue
to play the game and be a victim until we change the rules in our own
lives. If we blame others, we remain helpless; if we discover what part
we played in the abuse cycle, we can change our own behavior and recover.
9. Do you see any progress in the ex member situation?
Yes. Progress began with the fellowships organized by Barney,
and the New Day News. Lines of communication and mutual support have
increased dramatically.
10. What can be done to alleviate the younger generation problems related
to the Family?
One of the biggest difficulties I see for our young adults is a
lack of survival skills and tools. Supplying them with the information
and assistance needed to acquire basic items such as a driver's license,
job experience, GED certificate, etc. would help them attain personal
independence and autonomy, opening up to them a larger range of life
choices to fit their particular needs and desires.
Interview with Mordecai. Back Q: Which names do you like to be called more, Alex or Mordecai?
A:
Well, I tried Alex for a little while on the bulletin board but no one recognized me, so its sort of funny that I've been using Mordecai and then people realize it. I sort of had a code name which stuck and I was known as Scotty for awhile, so when I left the Family maybe WS printed something saying, "oh, Scotty had left", but no one really knew who it was. It didn't mean anything to anyone and when some people saw the name Mordecai online alot of people started boasting things.Q:
Was Scotty your real name?A:
No, my father was from Scotland, and also the people at Creations in the Pubs unit would watch Star Trek often and since Scotty was the chief engineer who would keep the Starship Enterprise going they named me Scotty after him.Q:
Tell me one good thing that you remember from the FamilyA:
Well, I'd say that the best time of my life was when I was in Italy around 1975 and all the witnessing that we did. With the sheep coming over, there was music and witnessing, soul & disciple winning, those are the very best memories.Q:
Do you have any bad memories?A:
The bad things; well, I’d have to think just a second on that, Well, what first comes in mind is not necessarily The Family but probably more my own inability to cope with situations I was in. The worst thing that can happen to anyone is to fail other people who need your love and encouragement or council.Q:
Were you afraid to come out into the open? Do you think that happens with other leadership and if so, why?A:
I'd say when you first leave you don’t want to get pulled into other peoples' battles; you don't want to get pulled in to others arguments or problems because you just want to get away from it all for a bit and not be in so much contact. I wanted to stay private because I had to face the struggles of getting a job, providing for my wife, getting established, that was the main thing for me at that time. I especially didn't want to get involved with any people who were very negative, that would cause me any hurt or give me the feeling that they were haranguing me.Q:
How long have you been in the Family?A:
I joined June 1st 1970 and I put in my resignation from all my WS duties within about a week of when MO died in November 1994. I was on a bench, you know. Everyone’s life is complicated when your leaving the Family because there’s so many people you love that are in the Family including, in my case, some of your own children that you may be separated from and all of the rest. So it was another year and half or something till I made my final break.Q:
How many years or how many months did it take you to finally make the decision that you were going to leave?A:
I think it was about 2 years that I really had to pray about things and read the Bible in a different light because I virtually re-did my entire spiritual foundation. So it would be independent of the Family and so that it would be re-established and be just a relationship between me personally and the Lord. I believe that all of this came to pass as an answer to my prayer for a closer walk with Jesus. I had to un-fold from there in a dedication to Jesus alone and his words as they are in the Bible and the Lord was faithful to answer my heart cry right there.Q:
What do you do now for living, You and your wife?A:
Well you know it was bumpy going at first 'cause we did different jobs and this and that, which all worked together to establish good references. But I am printing Christian books now. I support editors and authors with their software, I manage their manuscripts, I prepare the manuscripts for type setting and I manage a data base that tracks production of manuscripts for books all the way through to production. So I am abiding in my calling and I’m very fulfilled and happy and working with other Christians. Teresa after working various secretarial jobs, has found one supporting psychologists, therapists and lawyers and she’s totally fulfilled working with wonderful people and in a position where she can witness to alot of people in need.Q:
Are you in contact with your kids?A:
We have a total of 5 boys, I've gained 3 step sons when I left and they call me dad and I’m really close to Teresa's boys. They all left the Family one at a time and my two sons (flesh sons that is) are still in the Family. I love them tons and would do anything for them but it has to be their decision. I mean I can’t force anything on them. For me it was the matter of the Lord working in my heart when my heart was ready and open and broken and then the Lord did it. Its a big decision to leave it all behind, it really hurts you to lay down your sort of idealistic utopian dream and ministry. And its tough forsaking and a tough transition for you emerge from your cocoon when you don’t know if you’re going to turn into a butterfly or not. I had the privilege of feeling I was being called by the Lord to leave the Family, that Jesus was calling me out and I want the same for them because they won't leave with any condemnation, they wont leave double minded, they won't leave looking back. In a matter of time the Lord will answer their prayers, they have very sincere kind beautiful hearts.Q:
What do you think is one of the greatest needs for the people that left the Family right at this moment, what do you see happing?A:
Well I would tell them that there is hope; that they can find a place of fulfillment, the Lord can use all that they've been through. It's all going to work together for good that you can be part of a vital Christian ministry and be an important member of that from all your experience that the Lord has given you. It helped a lot for us to stay with some former members in the house for about a month just to get used to the idea of being out, having a secular job and getting used to the idea of giving a little distance. Have no condemnation to have support that’s real important.Q:
How did you find those former members?A:
They were the ones who left before us and people that we respected and admired and they offered help.Q:
So you think that perhaps for a lot of people leaving the Family it could be a great help for former members offering support instead of just go to an institution somewhere?A:
Yes, absolutely! It would be the very best way. Get in contact with people you trust and admire who have already left, and now even the Family itself says that 95 percent of the people who have ever been in the Family are out, and many of those people will be glad to help you. Everyone has different means but there is such a bond between us all whether we’re in or out we are the same Family spiritually. We understand each other, we love each other and I can't think of anyone who left the Family, that wouldn’t be willing to take in another family. Show them the ropes, find them a place to rent and even take care of them for a month or two until they find a place of their own.Q:
Do you think it was necessary to write Shake Up 2,000 now or do you think that they should have written this before? Do you think the people that read the letter right now should be responsible for whatever happens?A:
Well its a nice reminder you know, a general principle that I found that never fails me is go according to the peace that’s in your heart. If you don’t have peace in your heart being in the Family, that’s God's voice for you. It's really quiet, but its there and if you listen you'll know what to do. So it's good it came out now. Yes! Its good it came out and I hope everyone that has trouble with signing that pledge and all the rest, decides that it’s a good time to go. There’s never a better time than now for the rest of your life to be without limits. If you have any hesitation I'd say go. Go to where you can live according to your conscience, that’s the important thing. You're an individual that’s just how the Lord made you. Follow that and your not going to go wrong, you'll find your place.Q:
Thinking as a teenager, who would you say is to blame for the discipline problems, past and present, that the Family has had? Who is more to blame? The parents that let the kids go through it or the Family as an organization because they were supposed to be the "parent" of the teen/child as well.A:
I don’t see any value in mentioning names because if it hadn't been uh...John so and so, or Paul so and so on it would have been someone else. It was the Family structure and designs, the communal experiment of having just one family and breaking down all the traditional family units that’s to blame. It’s the structure, its the utopian dream, that’s not possible with human nature as it is. There is not perfect love in our hearts while we still have these fleshly bodies. Before we’re transformed to be like Jesus. It can not happen on earth.Q:
Do you think America is going to hell?A:
No, I see America as a land of great opportunity. It's one of the best places in the world to start again. Economically it’s doing very well. There are plenty of jobs, people don’t discriminate against you, there are rights of privacy, and all the rest. They respect those who are missionaries and I wish everyone had the chance to finish high school in the kind of state sponsored high school programs that there are here. Immigrants from the third world everywhere fight to get into America because you can get a diploma. And once you can get education you've got every shot to establish in a life or a career. Whatever you want you can go for it, it's great!Q:
Tell me one thing that you think is wrong with the doctrine of the Family. No matter if its small, just one thing you can come up with, one that you think is very important.A:
It wasn't like this in the beginning, but the Family and the structure of the leadership, or the leader, or the prophets take the place of a simple relationship between you and the Lord. Too much has gotten in between.Q:
A lot of people that left the Family for 15 or even 20 years still talk a lot about the group itself even though they only spent 2 or 3 years in it. Why do you think that happens?A:
The same thing happens to soldiers who have been to war together and experienced it and risked their live for each other and gone through an incredible experience and that’s what we've done together. We've been soldiers together we've given our life’s for each other we've taken care of each others children we've suffered a lot together and all that has made us like one.Q:
What is your advice for people leaving the organization and for the people moving into the organization?A:
Advice for those leaving the organization? Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, hold on to your faith, and read the bible. The Family is a phase of your spiritual life. It's like the phases in your childhood when your under the laws and the tutors and the structure of a family, but the time comes and you grow up to adulthood, your on your own, you want to do other thing. So look at your time leaving the Family as graduation from a certain level of Christianity. Of valuable lessons many others haven't experienced by communal living and sacrificial service over seas as missionaries. For those thinking of joining the Family talk to the ex-members too. Don't accept what doesn’t line up with the Bible. Get informed from all sides, and listen to all sides. Don't do anything to compromise your convictions.Q:
You think the outside members of the Family here in the USA which were the ones that pioneered the Family have some kind of responsibility to help other members in the world who are going through big ordeals?A:
I feel responsibility. I printed the literature in the books the Family members read for years, but I know when someone leaves the Family its a matter of the holy spirit working in there heart preparing them.Q:
What can we do?A:
I believe now at this point of our Christian life, those who have been in the Family want to have a loose association of friends who will help each other. We’ll be an invisible church without a big structure working together with the rest of Christians around the world changing our parts of the world wherever we are. I want to see us stay in touch with each other and help anyone who needs help who is leaving.Q:
In which capacity right now at this moment can we help?A:
Well first of all everyone needs to help their own children to get going. First of all rather than after. But, it's also according to your own talents and skills. Now I'm happy to help on a Website and keep that going and I'm able to get a lot of books to send out to people and that’s very effective. Even on the inside there is so much to be learned from study and reading and cleansing our mind of all the indoctrination that we've had for so long. So my part is sharing what literally freed my mind to return to conventional Christianity and help others do the same.Q:
When you left the organization of the Family did you feel like your Christian life ran out or did you find it harder to witness?A:
No, no, at first witnessing was incredibly beautiful because when you first lead someone to the Lord you’re just linking them directly to Jesus himself. There’s nothing in between. It’s a joyful thing!Q:
Do you talk to people that go to church?A:
Ya sure, your not going to leave them alone and they need to be fed and for instance, Gabe led someone to the Lord he was working in the bank with at nights and this guy has found the Lord, prayed, transformed, going to Bible studies, church and is a strong witnessing Christian now!! If he walked in after half a year of when Gabe led him to the Lord you wouldn’t have recognized him. Even in my own work I help my manager who works part time in a Christian community He went through a spiritual abuse and he had something happen when he was about to graduate from Bible college. They had two years of his own and were smashing him all over the head with them and totally beat him down. I'm helping him deal with that and overcome that I have so much to share with everyone.Q:
Tell me your opinion about the New England fellowship and also the Cancion’s fellowship. Different people doing different things in different places.A:
Well I'll tell you this, a particular thing in New England that strikes me is that everyone has continued on and developed and found a way to use the same talents the Lord gave them that they used in the Family to edify there area of the world. Zac who left the family, now witnessing all of the time with his music and the Lord supports him that way. Shelly always had a heart for the sick, now she is a nurse helping people and witnessing to people and being a sample everyday. Ray and Stephanie were terrific personal witnesses and now there out doing that and providing people with Christian videos for their children. You know it goes on and on and it takes a little time to find the place where you fit and Teresa and I are doing the same thing too and so more than saying everyone should do it our way or needs to be part of this fellowship pray desperately. Each of these people went through hard times when they left, forsook all leaving the Family but they hung in there, hung together in their marriage. They aw it helped their kids and I'm so impressed that they've kept to their callings, they kept true to all they've used and their so fruitful and their children are proud of the parents and bring their friends over and there’s now light in each of these community’s.I wanted to serve the Lord with my whole conscience, according to His truth in the Bible and that alone. I wanted to please Him and He showed me I had to leave because I couldn't print falsehood, I couldn't print twisted scriptures, I couldn't print things that weren't true that were deceiving my brothers. I had to go. It was like the Lord called all the shots once I set my heart.
Interview with Ray (Kenaz) & Hodia.
Q: How many kids do you have?
A: We have 11 children.
Q: Where were you born?
A: I was born in New Jersey.
Q: Were you a Christian before you joined the Family?
A: No, the Family led me to the Lord.
Q: Tell me one positive thing and one sad thing that you learned in the Family.
A: I learned how to claim Gods promises, his grace, his mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, I guess on the negative side that it is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.
Q: In your opinion who is at fault right now, like we have parents, some of whom disciplined their kids even in victor programs themselves and the kids left the Family and now they go through trials about abuse etc. who do you think is at fault in those circumstances?
A: Ultimately, I mean of course there is many of us who made mistakes along the way as leaders but ultimately I think the responsibility is with false teaching.
Q: If someone is joining the family right now and someone was leaving the family what would you say to them in the form of advice?
A: If someone were to join, I would tell them to check it out with scripture everything your taught. You might talk about some of the specifics of family teachings that disagree with scripture and remind people that it is for eternity. The decisions we make here on earth are not light if someone were leaving the family I would say, stay in the word, take some time, because you really need to go through a period of disorientation before you get a new vision and not to let that scare you. We are used to viewing things 1 way for 20 odd years to become acquainted with a new view, a new vision, to be able to sort out the good and the bad from what you learned in the family. It takes some time just relax about it ask the lord to really help you with it read as much as you can. Check things out with the scriptures.
Q: Right now, I don’t know if you read it or not, the letter shakeup 2000, states alot of things that they want to do in the family. If someone who is in the family or someone who wants to rejoin the family reads the letter again, if that person came to you 3 years from now and says that the family used him or he was abused do u think he has the right to say that or is it his fault?
A: Well there are many reasons why people choose to stay in the family, not are all theological some are of a personal nature. They have relatives who are in the family, they might have some fears about what will happen to them outside the family they could be very confused about what the bible really says and because of this have a hard time making a stand. So I think every situation has to be judged by its own merits, but I think what people should know that what’s going to happen will be a very much more tightly controlled environment than it has been under the charter. Q: So you think it's a positive thing for the Family to have written that letter?
A: Well I think the Family makes a foundational error in thinking that they really understand the way God views every little decision in life and that’s not the way the Holy Spirit works according to the New Testament. So by trying to take the place of God in peoples life they are inevitably going to make so very serious mistakes that cause alot of damage in peoples lives. I suppose it's better for people to know that there going to do that to them than not know but unfortunately I think they’re making a big mistake thinking they can do that, that what God even intends from New Testament pattern of authority in the Church.
Q: So somebody that read the letter right now and they still want to stay in the Family still it's pretty much the Family fault or not so much the Family’s fault?
A: Well I think God has to judge each person so I don't know.
Q: What is abuse to you?
A: I think that basically when we as men try to take to much upon ourselves that really belongs to God. It's inevitable because we are so human and so full of faults that were not going to do a very good job of playing the Holy Spirit. And what happens can be very damaging to someone who puts their faith in leadership in a way that only should be in the living God.
Q: Tell me about New England fellowship and what do you think has happened here in this area now?
A: Oh I think the nicest thing for us is to just have friends, friends that love one another and care for one another. And that we pray for one another and try and encourage each other along the path of life as our kids go through different things and our marriages and our business and just help one another a long the path and encourage one another and keep us following Jesus.
Q: When you left the organization of the Family, what was one of the greatest fears that you had?
A: I had fears that I wouldn't find any Christian fellowships and that I would be an outcast in the earth for the rest of my life, I had fears weather my Family would come with me fears weather we could pay the bills, all those kind of things.
Q: What do you think right now is one of the greatest things for the people outside of the Group?
A: I think good fellowship that gives you a chance to sit through your belief system and really challenges some of your pre-conceived ideas and get your life based solidly on the rock is the most helpful thing. I think communicating with one another, in person, on the Internet, whichever way you can is very, very helpful to ex-members to encourage one another in their walk with the Lord and fight off any condemnation or anything.
Q: How long have you been out of the Family?
A: About nine years.
Q: In your opinion people who have been out of the Family for ten or fifteen years they still talk alot about the group itself. Why do you think that’s happening?
A: Well I think it could perceive that way cause when your with other ex-members you talk about the Family but your not fellowshipping all day and we all have many, many things to talk about with our lives and our lively hood and our children and their schooling and all those things that occupy most of our time, and when we get together. Sometimes we review shared beliefs or the after math’s of bad appearance that our kids are still experiencing. Its not the past its still with us and we have to overcome those things. You know you spend 20 years on something and your still curious about the direction that no one’s going to take, you care emotionally for many people in the movement it's not past life goes on. I've got may loved ones still in.
Q: So you think that, that talk and whatever you just said is going to go with you for a long time?
A: Sure I mean whenever I get together someone that I went to high school with we still talk about high school our experience you know. I've spent 20 years of my adult life in the Family it's alot more than 4 years of high school so naturally that an awfully big thing and I still have children in the Family I still have loved ones in the Family, obviously. I think these are still days of decision for the Family. We all hope that people don't end up getting in some serious trouble.
Q: Tell me what was one of the most precious moments that you remember in the Family and one of maybe not so precious moment that you remember in the Family.
A: Well I think all the many experiences I had as a father when my kids were small we were all in the Family obviously that’s part of it, and I guess the joy of raising small children on a mission field with the Lords support is just a memory that will always be with me. On the negative side I think experiencing strong handed miss guided leadership that didn't respect me as a child of God.
Q: Did you start selling videos right after u left the family?
A: No! We went through many difficult periods trying to keep body and soul together. Eventually we found the videos and it took a while to build a business to where it would support us. It has been inspiring to still have a chance to touch lives with the message of the gospel make some fantastic new friends and have the lord pay the bills all at the same time.
Q: Right now you have your own business?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you consider yourself a stabilized family?
A: way more so then 5 years ago, but you know, everyone is on a journey.
Q: Was being here in New England help in stabilizing your selves spiritually, emotionally, and financially?
A: Primarily it was the spiritual and emotional aspect, well I didn’t have to live in New England to build a business, It was just nice to be around brothers and sisters.
Q: When you left the Family you were still associated with as a TS of Fellow Member for some time right?
A: I was asked to leave because of my doctrinal differences with the Family, they offered me TS status which we took because the rest of my family was still very emotionally attached to the Family and, to a certain extent I was too. Eventually when the Loving Jesus series came out it just really didn’t make any sense for us to be part of it any more in anyway.
Interview with Steven B. Boston, now residing in the Washington D.C. area. Back
Q: How Many kids do you have?
A:
I have 7 wonderful children!Q:
Why did you join the Family?A:
I joined the Family back in a real searching phase of my life. I had recently received Jesus and the Holy Spirit and was so turned on. Somehow, I never associated the experience I had with churches. I met someone who taught me about memorization, the Endtime, witnessing, and discipleship, and told me if I really wanted the most wholehearted and dedicated group of Christians I should join the Family. I’m glad I did. It was just what I wanted!Q:
Were you a Christian before you joined the Family? What is your status right now?A:
I had received Jesus about 6 weeks before I met and joined the Family. Having been raised Catholic, I was aware of God, but knew little about Him, and wasn’t sure what I believed in, as a teenager.Q:
What is one of the greatest memories you have of being in the Family?A:
Aside from the many places I have lived and the people I have lived with, I’d say it is when I have been really in the Spirit witnessing!Q:
What was one of the saddest things?A:
Many sad things, mainly the stupid things I have done, and the results.Q:
Do you think that the "Shakeup 2000" is helping people to come to a decision and eliminating doubts about being or not being in the Family? And two years from now, it’s pretty much their own fault and decision if they decided to stay or go?A:
I think it’s great. We have to look at ourselves and ask hard questions of ourselves from time to time, and be real and honest with ourselves and others, and that is what the S2K is doing. It’s making people get "real" and be honest as to what they believe and really want to do. Now, no one has to feel like they are being forced to do what they don’t choose to do, except, of course the kids too young to leave on their own. They’ll have their time to choose.Q:
In your opinion what is the greatest need for people that has left the Family?A:
To know that the Lord is with them, and that the Family is not the same as the Lord. He is everywhere, and someone choosing to leave the Family need not feel separated from God in any way. If it turns out that you later decide to return to the Family, the door is always open. Where there is a will there is a way. I’d say the greatest thing is not to fear, you are in God’s Hands.Q:
What did you go through when you left or were asked to leave the DO, or CM Family?A:
I was "reclassified" FM, and it hurt. I felt like I was no good for the Family, and couldn’t seem to help myself. I had lived all my life in the Family from when I was 17, and all my friends were in the Family, my loved ones. I was able to be with other FMers, but I felt somewhat like a "leper", if you know what I mean.Q:
What are you doing right now?A:
Well, I’m doing a lot of things right now. I am witnessing with literature, and would really like to have more money and time to witness personally. We do get responses from the lit we hand out, and it does preach the Gospel, and I am glad for that. Right now I am also focusing more on music, really enjoying learning and getting myself into situations where I have to perform and grow. It’s a blast.Q:
What is your relationship with the younger generation?A:
I wish I could say it is great, but it’s not. I think I am a little too sensitive, and have an inferiority complex, so the rejection, real or perceived, I get from them tend to make me reach out less to them. Interview with Marie, California. BackQ:
How Many kids do you have?seven, count ‘em, seven wonderful kids!
Q:
Why did you join the Family?A:
Because they seemed to have what I was searching for, Truth and Love.Q:
Were you a Christian before you joined the Family?A:
I was CatholicQ:
What is one of the greatest memories you have of being in the Family?A:
Going to Italy and being a missionary outside the U.S.A.Q:
What was one of the saddest things?A:
When my husband got excommunicated.Q:
Do you think that the "Shakeup 2000" is helping people to come to a decision and eliminating doubts about being or not being in the Family? And two years from now, it’s pretty much their own fault and decision if they decided to stay or go?A:
Yes. Most definitely, it’s making people be honest and not just floating along. Some people are finding the center of greatest fruitfulness for them. People will be happier and now blaming others for their problems.Q:
In your opinion what is the greatest need for people that has left the Family?A:
Fellowship and the Word.Q:
What did you go through when you left or were asked to leave the DO, or CM Family?A:
Condemnation, feelings of failure.Q:
What are you doing right now?A:
Teaching my kids, clowning, provisioning, and car washes.Q:
What is your relationship with the younger generation?A:
I get along quite well with most of them, unless they just hate all adults. I specialize in teens and YAs, it’s my burden.